Curse

SingYai · Dec 27, 2009, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Hello, after testing out different hero builds to synergize with my build such as Sabway, Discordway, Racway, and Spiritway I found that I much prefer Sabway then the rest and then when I start looking around more here at GWguru, I've seen many ppl use a combonation of an Ele protter, SoS rit, and either a minion bomber or MM. So I decided to put them together with my build and see would it work in NM and HM. Please tell me what you guys think.

Myself W/Mo (I use mainly a HB or D-slash build)
Swordmanship 12+1+1
Strength 12+1

Lion's Comfort
"For Great Justice"
"By Ural's Hammer"
Pain Inverter/Rebirth (depending where)
Whirlwind Attack
Sun and Moon Slash
Hundred Blades
Flail

-or-

W/P

Enduring Harmony
"For Great Justice"
Asuran Scan/Save Yourselves
Dragon Slash
Brawling Headbutt
Steelfang Slash/Rez
Lion's Comfort
Flail

For my heroes:

E/Mo
Energy Storage 12+1+1
Healing Prayers 9
Protection Prayers 9

Ether Renewal
Aura of Restoration
Protective Spirit
Spirit Bond
Reversal of Fortune
Mend Ailment
Patient Spirit
Heal Other

Rit/Mo
Smiting 12
Channeling 12+1+1
Resto 3

Spirit Siphon
Signet of Spirits
Ancestor's Rage
Splinter Weapon
Strength of Honor
Smite Hex
Smite Condition
Flesh of my Flesh

N/Rit
Death Magic 12+1+3
Soul Reaping 9+1
Curses 9
Resto 3

Order of Undeath
Animate Bone Minions
Animate Vampiric Horror
Blood of the Master
Masochism
Barbs
Mark of Pain
Flesh of my Flesh

I know this is not the best set-up in the world I just would like your guys opinion, Thanks! Oh and BTW would a necro bomber/curse (Mop/Barbs) be better then the MM I'm currently using?

Lusciious · Dec 28, 2009, 05:15 AM // 05:15

e/mo = fail for heroes . needs quite alot of micro-ing.

n/rt = jagged bones instead of oou.

if you're using a curse necro (MoP/Barbs), i'd suggest you go with w/mo. 100 blades with mop + barbs = fantastic

Arrogant Bastard · Dec 28, 2009, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

e/mo = fail for heroes . needs quite alot of micro-ing.

Wrong.
ER work far better than any other healing/proto build for heroes.
No micro necessary.

About the builds:

-If OoU doesn't work well for heroes try JB or AotL.
-The second build for yourself is better, but change Lion's Comfort for Enraging Charge.

Lusciious · Dec 28, 2009, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Wrong.
ER work far better than any other healing/proto build for heroes.
No micro necessary.

About the builds:

-If OoU doesn't work well for heroes try JB or AotL.
-The second build for yourself is better, but change Lion's Comfort for Enraging Charge.

i would reconfirm that . i don't know how heroes would know how to maintain life bond and all the enchants on themselves without ANY micro-ing. you have to maintain ER via GoS . they don't know how to use it properly .

upier · Dec 28, 2009, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

i would reconfirm that . i don't know how heroes would know how to maintain life bond and all the enchants on themselves without ANY micro-ing. you have to maintain ER via GoS . they don't know how to use it properly .

If you look at the build the OP posted and other ER hero versions you'll notice that they do not include Bonds nor GoS.

I would definitely run Infuse on the ER guy.
And dump Lion's.
Not sure about the necro - not only do I not like the elite (I'd look into a bitch-elite something like Divert Hexes, Empathic Removal, Restore Condition, It's just a flesh wound, ...), I have to wonder the usefulness of running a guy that is there mostly to provide a wall when you are the wall already. I mostly run an Air of Disenchantment (with a second copy of Splinter and AR - although I'd need to look into running this on a primary ritualist once) mesmer in this slot.

Lusciious · Dec 29, 2009, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Right the build the OP posted . Well what I had in mind was the ER protter on Pvxwiki . My bad .

Anyway, if it works for you then use it

I feel that a MM and a curses nec should go together . Barbs and mop do benefit alot from 10minions hitting 10 damage then 1 player hitting 80 . Also, having more walls is always good . You might be so focused / your heroes unknowingly attracting another mob, most likely, you (player warrior) won't be able to keep them under your attention . Also, a spike on you could kill you and your wall is broken then . That's why i feel it's always good to have a backup .

If I were you, I'd drop the er protter . Make him a SF spanner an make the nec a n/mo hybrid . But thts just me

Arrogant Bastard · Dec 29, 2009, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

Right the build the OP posted . Well what I had in mind was the ER protter on Pvxwiki . My bad .

Anyway, if it works for you then use it

I feel that a MM and a curses nec should go together . Barbs and mop do benefit alot from 10minions hitting 10 damage then 1 player hitting 80 . Also, having more walls is always good . You might be so focused / your heroes unknowingly attracting another mob, most likely, you (player warrior) won't be able to keep them under your attention . Also, a spike on you could kill you and your wall is broken then . That's why i feel it's always good to have a backup .

If I were you, I'd drop the er protter . Make him a SF spanner an make the nec a n/mo hybrid . But thts just me

An ER hero out heals and protos any other hero. Necro healers will work, but this forces you to bring more healing/prots on your other heroes and henchmen (e.g. look at Discordway, 2 Necros have heals and you probably need at least 1-2 monk henchmen in harder areas).

An ER hero allows you to bring more damage.

About infuse, I don't like it on heroes. They use it too often leaving them vulnerable to being spiked. If you use an MM, they will constantly use on minions. Instead I bring 2 heals like in the OP's build. Also, if you are using another AI healer, they will waste heals on your ER hero when they infuse.

AtomicMew · Dec 29, 2009, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Wrong.
ER work far better than any other healing/proto build for heroes.
No micro necessary.

I'm sorry, but that's just not correct.

I use ER all the time, but it does need to be microed. It's entirely possible that the ER bankrupts its energy, which is really bad, since heroes don't have easy weapon swapping and will have quite a bit of downtime. It happens all the time if you don't pay attention.

An N/Rt needs zero micro, has easily 3+ party heals per fight ( which an ER lacks), and also has the possibility to take splinter weapon.

OP: Really, it comes down to two things: 1) if you're confident enough to rely on soul reaping, and 2) whether you want to micro or not. (And not just micro-ing the ER, but your other heroes as well, since you lack party heals to make up for AoE.) The appeal of an ER is that it has much higher potential, but at the same time, an N/Rt is much, much easier to use.

Xenomortis · Dec 29, 2009, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

No micro necessary.

Only nearly. Generally all you need to do is micro Prot Spirit when you want to pre-prot and make sure he exploits Ether Renewal. Most of the time he'll be ok by himself, even if it's only because fights are over quickly.

It isn't intensive micro and I would recommend most players try it over N/Rt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trcvrs

An N/Rt ... has easily 3+ party heals per fight ( which an ER lacks)

I would say that this is a bigger issue than the micro one. An option could be to squeeze some heals onto the Rit and to turn the MM into a more bitch-like role with hex/condition removal and prots/heals (which I recommend anyway). Dwayna's Sorrow can cover party-wide pressure with some decency.

Arrogant Bastard · Dec 29, 2009, 03:41 PM // 15:41

The only time I have problems with the ER is if they get hexed with Arcane Languor or something equally devastating. Then again, these will mess with a Necro healer too.

The most micro-intensive thing you need to do with an ER hero is pre-prot PS (and really only versus elementalist bosses or something) and that is easier to do than flagging your heroes around (which you have to do with both builds in certain areas).

You cannot honestly say that the Necro healer is less micro intensive because you don't have to click on PS. The two most popular builds that use Necro healers usually have PS on the MM that you have to painfully "micro" anyway.

_Nihilist_ · Dec 29, 2009, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Hundred Blades Build:
W/E
Swordsmanship: 12+1+1
Strength: 12+1
Earth Magic: 3

"For Great Justice!"
Drunken Master (you had no cancel stance for Flail, you'd be better off with this in that case)
Hundred Blades
Grasping Earth
Brawling Headbutt
Steelfang Slash
Sun and Moon Slash
Whirlwind Attack

*I'll finish this post later.

Arrogant Bastard · Dec 29, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

Hundred Blades Build:
W/E
Swordsmanship: 12+1+1
Strength: 12+1
Earth Magic: 3

"For Great Justice!"
Drunken Master (you had no cancel stance for Flail, you'd be better off with this in that case)
Hundred Blades
Grasping Earth
Brawling Headbutt
Steelfang Slash
Sun and Moon Slash
Whirlwind Attack

*I'll finish this post later.

I'd take SY! and AoS over Headbutt/Steelfang/Grasping in most cases.

The Riven · Dec 29, 2009, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

Hundred Blades Build:
W/E
Swordsmanship: 12+1+1
Strength: 12+1
Earth Magic: 3

"For Great Justice!"
Drunken Master (you had no cancel stance for Flail, you'd be better off with this in that case)
Hundred Blades
Grasping Earth
Brawling Headbutt
Steelfang Slash
Sun and Moon Slash
Whirlwind Attack

*I'll finish this post later.

Enraging charge instead of Drunken Master, adren gaining speed boost freeing up a PvE skill slot.

Drop Grasping earth, instead use Tryptophan Signet (14...20 seconds.) Target and adjacent foes move and attack 23...40% slower.

Far better use of a snare as it also reduces dmg by 40% (if max)

edited... thats a lot of high adren attacks... id drop one of those at least.

Second edit... just loaded up that bar, I would now suggest you drop 2 of those adren skills.

Sir Cusfreak · Dec 29, 2009, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Enraging charge instead of Drunken Master, adren gaining speed boost freeing up a PvE skill slot.

Drop Grasping earth, instead use Tryptophan Signet (14...20 seconds.) Target and adjacent foes move and attack 23...40% slower.

Far better use of a snare as it also reduces dmg by 40% (if max)

edited... thats a lot of high adren attacks... id drop one of those at least.
Today 11:38 AM

Drop the IAS for Enraging Charge, while you have FGJ?

no.

Personally I would put Flail back in that build, even without a cancel-stance, because you dont really need to cancel flail with a super-snare like Grasping. But I can see the use of Drunken too, for some people, as long as they want to drink on thier warrior and have good deld ranks.

As for Tryptophan vs Grasping Earth, they both have ups and downs, but the signet, which hits target and adj, is going to hit far fewer enemies than Grasping, which hits all nearby, and the signet is only 'a far better use' if youre hitting melee foes and not when youre ruining a mobs backline.

as for the attacks in Nihilists build being too high adren costs, thats because you tried to lose the IAS which is never a good idea.

as for the OP's hero builds, the rit is good. I dont like the MM at all, I prefer bombers. The ER is ok but I think monk AI has a better shot at ignoring minions than Eles do. Its anecdotal, but Ive been watching and ERs heal the hell out of minions more. I dont like MM and ER in same party. (side note: min-bomber + Dwaynas Sorrow = good stuff in any case.)

anytime your protter isnt a human, then prots will be weak at best. prots arent meant to be reactive. the ER can redbar like crazy though. (but so can N/rt and <gasp> monks.) prots seem to be best dispensed one or two at a time throughout a party rather than on one dedicated bar...but again just my opinons from watching AI.

The Riven · Dec 29, 2009, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak

Drop the IAS for Enraging Charge, while you have FGJ?

no.

Not quite sure what your thinking here, id use flail + enraging as both an ias and a cancel (that also happens to fuel adren skills).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak

As for Tryptophan vs Grasping Earth, they both have ups and downs, but the signet, which hits target and adj, is going to hit far fewer enemies than Grasping, which hits all nearby, and the signet is only 'a far better use' if youre hitting melee foes and not when youre ruining a mobs backline.

Precast then attack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak

as for the attacks in Nihilists build being too high adren costs, thats because you tried to lose the IAS which is never a good idea.

No i didnt, 4 attacks with the costs being 8 adren 8 adren 7 adren and 6 adren. its overkill, with a 15% IAS (or more if your drunk) there is no realistic way to fuel all those attacks while keeping your bar optimised.

And while im on the subject of adren skills.... drop one attack (brawling) and replace with SY) lower cost and more utility.

For example.... OQkSEZKTXFGW8V2i9F7gCFie

_Nihilist_ · Dec 29, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Why drop Brawling and Steelfang?

I know all about "SY!" utility, but to be honest, using "SY!" is going to mess up your Adrenaline rotation more than Brawling Headbutt. Add to it that Brawling and Steelfang will allow you to boost your Adrenaline on a single target, just in case something happens and you using Whirlwind Attack is going to be wasteful.

You don't have to use Brawling and Steelfang every time they are available... that's one of the main problems that people have when using the skills - they try to spam their bar, not use it as efficiently as possible. Brawling and Steelfang should only be used to get an immediate second use of both Whirlwind and Sun and Moon to maximize Hundred Blades and MoP, or to KD lock any particularly annoying/dangerous priority target.

While Tryptophan Sig is nice, it's adjacent only, and max slow is 40%. Grasping is 50% slow, all the time, regardless of investment in Earth Magic, and it's nearby, which will affect significatly more foes than Tryp Sig.

As far as Drunken Master goes, you don't have to worry unless there is a Stance breaker somewhere, and you only need level 1 alcohol to reap the full benefits of the conditional. That opens an extra slot on your bar.

On the bar you posted Riven, how are you going to get 5e every 3 seconds for Power Attack spam?

The Riven · Dec 29, 2009, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

While Tryptophan Sig is nice, it's adjacent only, and max slow is 40%. Grasping is 50% slow, all the time, regardless of investment in Earth Magic, and it's nearby, which will affect significatly more foes than Tryp Sig.

As far as I recall nearby is 1.5x Adjacent. Thats hardy a Significant amount.
Even so, feel free to drop the sig for Grasping, it was only an example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

As far as Drunken Master goes, you don't have to worry unless there is a Stance breaker somewhere, and you only need level 1 alcohol to reap the full benefits of the conditional. That opens an extra slot on your bar.

With this we agree, and there are not to many stancebreakers in PvE, though as we don't know the rank he has its fair to say that enraging + flail is fairly obvious choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

On the bar you posted Riven, how are you going to get 5e every 3 seconds for Power Attack spam?

Who said anything about spamming Power Attack?

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

that's one of the main problems that people have when using (the) skills - they try to spam their bar, not use it as efficiently as possible.

Arrogant Bastard · Dec 29, 2009, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Cusfreak

as for the OP's hero builds, the rit is good. I dont like the MM at all, I prefer bombers. The ER is ok but I think monk AI has a better shot at ignoring minions than Eles do. Its anecdotal, but Ive been watching and ERs heal the hell out of minions more. I dont like MM and ER in same party. (side note: min-bomber + Dwaynas Sorrow = good stuff in any case.)

anytime your protter isnt a human, then prots will be weak at best. prots arent meant to be reactive. the ER can redbar like crazy though. (but so can N/rt and <gasp> monks.) prots seem to be best dispensed one or two at a time throughout a party rather than on one dedicated bar...but again just my opinons from watching AI.

ER and MM are only a problem if you bring infuse. Dropping infuse for Jamei's Gaze/Heal Other + Patient Spirit solves the problem.

Try this bar with the proper gear and with hero set on avoid:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Sub mit+Query

Hero should spam a lot during battles.

_Nihilist_ · Dec 29, 2009, 09:06 PM // 21:06

You didn't say anything about Power Attack spam, Riven. However, a good many of the posters on GWG see a bar, load it up, and try to spam. I was trying to steer readers away from spam spam spam, not trying to insinuate that you advocated doing so - I should have worded that part of my response differently.

I do like Enraging Charge + Flail (there are those that don't, to each their own), but I've had enough irritation with kiting enemies that Drunken Master has become a regular addition to my Warrior builds as of late (on the few occasions I can actually log on and play... ugh) - I'm also working on my Drunkard Title the useful way, so I will admit to being biased!

Still, even with no alcohol at rank 1, 10% IAS and 10% IMS is hard to beat when it's 5e for 60 seconds on a 45 second recharge. Add to that the fact that GW alcohol is readily available (event drops, Fronis Irontoe's Lair, Nicholas, and more, or just buying it if you're too pressed for time to play), and it's easy to see why Drunken Master is a top consideration for a PvE skill-slot.

"SY!" could be used, but if you try and press coverage too much you might end up screwing up your Adrenaline chain - though it does come in handy at times. In my experience, a DSlash Warrior is going to have an easier time keeping it up if you need full coverage without having to sacrifice any damage potential.

The Riven · Dec 29, 2009, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

"SY!" could be used, but if you try and press coverage too much you might end up screwing up your Adrenaline chain - though it does come in handy at times. In my experience, a DSlash Warrior is going to have an easier time keeping it up if you need full coverage without having to sacrifice any damage potential.

Used wisely you shouldn't have to much trouble with your adren chain, (again, were back into the realms of utilising a bar and not spamming it) though i do agree that a 100b Whirlwind build wont be optimal for SY. I personally prefer an Endurance Scythe build for powering it (id prefer an imbagon over that as well) but the OP did request a critique on a 100b build.